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  • #76
    Originally posted by dusty View Post
    Clearly, your philosophies differ significantly from Ghandi's.
    True. It should also be noted that Ghandi did what he had to do because his population was for the most part already disarmed. An armed populace would probably not have needed to resort to civil disobedience in the first place. See a certain revolution circa 1775-1783.

    Pete (knows that disarming the populace was the first rule of British colonial policy after the US Revolutionary War)
    Last edited by Plezercruz; 08-07-2018, 08:38 PM.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Mr. Raceboy
      Did Gandhi really have the impact he was credited with or did Britain simply not have the resources post WWII to maintain colonial control? Did MLK really cause the wave or did he just ride it?

      Can nonviolent protest work? In some cases, sure. But it counts on a certain level of morality and conscience from the oppressors. What if that doesn't exist? Do you think the Jews could have nonviolently stopped Hitler? Could the Native Americans nonviolently have stopped the Europeans?
      Originally posted by Plezercruz
      Civil disobedience only works with people who aren't actually willing to kill you and need something from you.

      Pete (doesn't think civil disobedience has worked very well historically for slaves)
      Originally posted by Jared
      If Gandhi had been working in the 1840's instead of the 1940's, he would have been buried after a very short criminal trial for sedition. If he had been doing his thing in the 1740's, there wouldn't have been a trial.

      He was fortunate to live in an era in which the British Empire didn't want the empire any more.
      Originally posted by Dusty
      Clearly, your philosophies differ significantly from Ghandi's.
      Right now, our government isn't sure it wants to tolerate non-violent protest. It's pretty sure it's supposed to, but it's working on fixing that, or at least regulating it out of existence. As evidenced by specified protesting zones, demonstration permits, police training to confront and escalate when protests don't have a permit, etc.
      When it does "fix" that issue, and non-violent protest is no longer a legal avenue, what is your plan then? Carefully written nasty emails? Be careful, because that'll get you on the No-fly/no-ride/no-buy list.
      "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." ĖMark Twain

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Jared View Post
        Right now, our government isn't sure it wants to tolerate non-violent protest. It's pretty sure it's supposed to, but it's working on fixing that, or at least regulating it out of existence. As evidenced by specified protesting zones, demonstration permits, police training to confront and escalate when protests don't have a permit, etc.
        When it does "fix" that issue, and non-violent protest is no longer a legal avenue, what is your plan then? Carefully written nasty emails? Be careful, because that'll get you on the No-fly/no-ride/no-buy list.
        You're complaint is weak and full of fear, Gandhi might say. Find your strength.
        Last edited by dusty; 08-07-2018, 09:30 PM.
        For every ailment under the sun - There is a remedy, or there is none;
        If there be one, try to find it; If there be none, never mind it. -- Mother Goose

        "Weíve always assumed that you canít bring back the dead. But itís a matter of when you pickle the cells." -- Peter Rhee

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        • #79
          Believe it or not the tienaman square protest did effect change. Yes it cost lives, but they were lives given, not taken by the protestors and that strengthened their movement.

          But go on confirming your own biases.
          They speak in bulletpointese leftist nutjob drivel. It doesn't matter. Nothing is as great a motivator as the chance to truly be free.
          -Mr. Raceboy

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          • #80
            Originally posted by Jester View Post
            Believe it or not the tienaman square protest did effect change. Yes it cost lives, but they were lives given, not taken by the protestors and that strengthened their movement.

            But go on confirming your own biases.
            So your argument is that passive martyrdom is preferable and those who disagree are the ones biased? When did you become a good Christian?
            "Democracy is a form of worship. It is the worship of jackals by jackasses." H.L. Mencken

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            • #81
              Why didnít the tanks just run him over?
              For every ailment under the sun - There is a remedy, or there is none;
              If there be one, try to find it; If there be none, never mind it. -- Mother Goose

              "Weíve always assumed that you canít bring back the dead. But itís a matter of when you pickle the cells." -- Peter Rhee

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by dusty View Post
                Why didnít the tanks just run him over?
                How do you know they didn't?
                "Democracy is a form of worship. It is the worship of jackals by jackasses." H.L. Mencken

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Mr. Raceboy View Post
                  How do you know they didn't?
                  because I saw it on TV. The tanks stopped. He climbed on the tanks, then back down. They tried to go around him but he kept adjusting so they couldn't. Eventually, 2 people ran out and hurried him away from the tanks and out of the street. From my view it seemed he was very willing to run off with them.

                  dusty (notes the official Chinese position is they have no idea if he was ever arrested)
                  For every ailment under the sun - There is a remedy, or there is none;
                  If there be one, try to find it; If there be none, never mind it. -- Mother Goose

                  "Weíve always assumed that you canít bring back the dead. But itís a matter of when you pickle the cells." -- Peter Rhee

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by dusty View Post
                    Why didnít the tanks just run him over?
                    I've always wondered this but never thought of the answer until now. After some more research tonight it finally hit me.

                    They didn't run him over because they were done. It was the day after they had violently cleared the square. That column of tanks was rolling out to go back to base. That's why there's nobody around; the protests and the people had been cleared the prior day.

                    The day before, the protestors blocking the roads, sitting with arms locked (probably the same tactics they've been using in Chicago recently), the reports are they were run over by the military (and also shot), and their blood subsequently hosed into the gutters. The soldiers had been told they were breaking up something between a violent riot and an upstart Civil War (and possibly they were) so they were ready to dole out all the deadly force as they had been trained to do. But that operation was over and they were looking for a clean retreat at this point, and this was just one kid on an empty road. They didn't know what to do.

                    The other thing about looking this up now, is running into all the conspiracy people out there who insist he was run over, and that the footage to the contrary only proves "the Mandela effect" -- that experimentation at CERN (or something) has shifted us into an alternative dimension where recorded history doesn't match our memories which were formed prior to the dimensional shift. Oy!

                    For the record, I always remember that he wasn't run over.





                    dusty (thinks he was pretty close to getting shot just before he was rushed away)
                    Last edited by dusty; 08-08-2018, 01:35 AM.
                    For every ailment under the sun - There is a remedy, or there is none;
                    If there be one, try to find it; If there be none, never mind it. -- Mother Goose

                    "Weíve always assumed that you canít bring back the dead. But itís a matter of when you pickle the cells." -- Peter Rhee

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Don't you mean the Mengele Effect Dusty?
                      "Democracy is a form of worship. It is the worship of jackals by jackasses." H.L. Mencken

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Mr. Raceboy View Post
                        Don't you mean the Mengele Effect Dusty?
                        haha
                        how is the new x-files?
                        For every ailment under the sun - There is a remedy, or there is none;
                        If there be one, try to find it; If there be none, never mind it. -- Mother Goose

                        "Weíve always assumed that you canít bring back the dead. But itís a matter of when you pickle the cells." -- Peter Rhee

                        Comment

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