Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Montana Men Must Hold ‘I Stole Valor’ Signs for Misrepresenting Military Service

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Montana Men Must Hold ‘I Stole Valor’ Signs for Misrepresenting Military Service

    In an unconventional sentence, two Montana men have been ordered to stand in front of a memorial on Memorial Day and Veterans Day holding placards that read: “I am a liar. I am not a veteran. I stole valor. I have dishonored all veterans.”

    After making a patriotic speech and playing a video of an Army veteran calling out a shopper in a mall for trying to get a military discount, the judge also ordered the men to write out the names of 6,756 Americans killed in Iraq and Afghanistan and to write by hand obituaries for 40 Montanans killed in those countries, according to court documents.

    The sentence for the two men, Ryan Patrick Morris, 28, and Troy Allan Nelson, 33, was handed down during probation revocation hearings. In an attempt to obtain more lenient sentences, both men had misrepresented their military service.

    “I want to make sure that my message is received loud and clear by these two defendants,” the judge, Greg Pinski of Cascade County District Court in Great Falls, said on Friday as he announced the punishment. Both men’s lawyers objected to the condition that their clients hold placards on national holidays that honor those who serve in the military.

    Mr. Morris had been on probation for felony burglary, according to The Great Falls Tribune. In 2016, he told the same judge that he was a veteran with a disability who had participated in seven combat tours. He was sentenced to 441 hours of community service for a veterans’ organization. But he served only 10 hours, one of several violations of his probation that emerged on Friday. He was newly sentenced to 10 years in prison, with three of those years suspended.

    Mr. Nelson had been on probation for a drug possession conviction, according to The Associated Press. He was enrolled in a veterans treatment court, which is part of the court system and works to help former service members, before it was revealed that he had not served in the military, The Great Falls Tribune reported. Because of several new violations of his probation, he was sentenced on Friday to five years in prison with three of those years suspended.

    Before each man can be eligible for parole, he must complete his writing assignments. In addition to writing the names and the obituaries, both were ordered to send handwritten letters of apology to several veterans’ groups. Once they are released from prison, they must hold the placards on each Memorial Day and Veterans Day for the length of their probation, which will be at least three years.

    Failing to hold the signs as ordered could cause them to be sent back to prison.

    In court, a lawyer for Mr. Morris, Mark Frisbie, said the sentence violated his client’s dignity. He also argued that his client was being sentenced for stolen valor, which is a federal crime, even though he had not been charged with that crime.

    “I wish I would have objected more strenuously,” Mr. Frisbie said in an interview on Wednesday. Mr. Nelson’s lawyer could not be reached.

    It is far from the first time that a judge has ordered a defendant to hold a sign or carry out a writing assignment as part of a sentence. In 2003, a judge in San Francisco ordered a man to wear a signboard reading “I stole mail — this is my punishment” for eight hours as a condition of supervised release. In 2012, an Ohio judge ordered a woman to hold a sign that said “Only an idiot would drive on the sidewalk to avoid a school bus,” according to The Plain Dealer, in Cleveland.

    In 2013, a federal judge ordered a New Mexico couple who defrauded the Air Force of $3.2 million in a subcontracting scheme to publish an admission to their crimes in their hometown newspaper, The Clovis News Journal. “It better be a real strong confessional,” he told them, the newspaper reported at the time. “It better say: ‘I am a liar. I am a thief. I betrayed my friends. I betrayed the United States.’”

    He then rejected a draft of the couple’s letter and told them to do it correctly or prepare for federal prison.

    Misrepresentations of military service are relatively common. In 2008, The Chicago Tribune investigated the stories of people listed in the biographical reference “Who’s Who.” Of 333 people whose profiles stated that they had earned one of the nation’s most esteemed military medals, a third were not supported by military records.

    The Montana men’s sentence drew a range of reactions in the state. Peter Jonathan Saari, who served as an avionics technician in the Air Force, said that sentencing someone to hold a sign did not seem like an effective deterrent to future impersonators. “It just seems like a disconnect between crime and punishment,” he said.

    But Richard Klose, a former department commander of the American Legion of Montana, said it made sense. “I support the judge’s decision 100 percent,” he said.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/28/u...PcbbrZ4Lw0RXp0
    "I guess I just hate the fact there is public property at all." - Mr. Raceboy.

  • #2
    What if I say I identify as someone who has served in the military? Is that really any more ridiculous than a man saying they identify as a woman? I don't think so.

    Steve (lives in full-retard America)
    "Democracy is a form of worship. It is the worship of jackals by jackasses." H.L. Mencken

    Comment


    • #3
      In general, this type of sentencing would be far more effective and sensible for many crimes, rather than incarceration.
      At the precipice, we change!
      The problem with Capitalism is that humans run it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Mr. Raceboy View Post
        What if I say I identify as someone who has served in the military? Is that really any more ridiculous than a man saying they identify as a woman? I don't think so.

        Steve (lives in full-retard America)
        This is a pretty idiotic statement; one is what you view your identity as, the other is what you claim you’ve accomplished.

        unless you think being born with a cock was an accomplishment?
        They speak in bulletpointese leftist nutjob drivel. It doesn't matter. Nothing is as great a motivator as the chance to truly be free.
        -Mr. Raceboy

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Jester View Post

          This is a pretty idiotic statement; one is what you view your identity as, the other is what you claim you’ve accomplished.

          unless you think being born with a cock was an accomplishment?
          I have only heard legends of double full-retard, but I couldn't believe it. Full-retard? Sure, I see it all the time, but certainly double full-retard simply couldn't be possible. There's no way double full-retard could be possible because even if they did exist, how could they survive outside the womb for more than a few seconds? Then you posted this and now I have to rethink the entire order of the universe.

          Steve (got a two for one full-retard example in this thread)

          "Democracy is a form of worship. It is the worship of jackals by jackasses." H.L. Mencken

          Comment


          • #6
            I feel appropriately chastened by your thoughtful and relevant rebuttal.
            They speak in bulletpointese leftist nutjob drivel. It doesn't matter. Nothing is as great a motivator as the chance to truly be free.
            -Mr. Raceboy

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Mr. Raceboy View Post
              What if I say I identify as someone who has served in the military? Is that really any more ridiculous than a man saying they identify as a woman? I don't think so.

              Steve (lives in full-retard America)
              Gender identity is completely different than biological sex, which is the example you should have used. For a man to say he identifies as a female, who are you to say that's not true? But for a person to falsely claim he served in the military, that's patently untrue. Big difference. Jester is completely correct.

              Stolen valor is a big deal for vets. There are entire websites devoted to outing frauds. There's a scummy defense lawyer in my town who got into trouble for it, and it was pointed out to me by many of my colleagues and a mediator during a caucus.
              "I guess I just hate the fact there is public property at all." - Mr. Raceboy.

              Comment


              • #8
                Steve's ridiculous analogy would only work if guys identified themselves as war vets by dressing up like them, traveled to Afghanistan or Iraq and fought there. Then came back and claimed to be war veterans.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jeff92se View Post
                  Steve's ridiculous analogy would only work if guys identified themselves as war vets by dressing up like them, traveled to Afghanistan or Iraq and fought there. Then came back and claimed to be war veterans.
                  I'd say that doing all of that would qualify one as a war veteran, though not officially sanctioned by the government.
                  "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." –Mark Twain

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jared View Post

                    I'd say that doing all of that would qualify one as a war veteran, though not officially sanctioned by the government.
                    Would you agree to let males legitimately identify as females if they dressed like females full time, makeup, hair, plastic surgery and took female hormones?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by skooly View Post

                      Gender identity is completely different than biological sex, which is the example you should have used. For a man to say he identifies as a female, who are you to say that's not true? But for a person to falsely claim he served in the military, that's patently untrue. Big difference. Jester is completely correct.

                      Stolen valor is a big deal for vets. There are entire websites devoted to outing frauds. There's a scummy defense lawyer in my town who got into trouble for it, and it was pointed out to me by many of my colleagues and a mediator during a caucus.
                      I don't know, ask true biological females who can no longer even compete in sports because men have stolen what they have earned if it isn't just as big of a deal. Even the Ls, Gs, and Bs don't like the Ts for this reason.

                      Steve (channels Chappelle)
                      "Democracy is a form of worship. It is the worship of jackals by jackasses." H.L. Mencken

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jeff92se View Post

                        Would you agree to let males legitimately identify as females if they dressed like females full time, makeup, hair, plastic surgery and took female hormones?
                        Sure, why not?

                        "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." –Mark Twain

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jared View Post

                          Sure, why not?
                          Just goes to context. Thanks for your answer.

                          Someone else here wouldn’t

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Another thread about something we all pretty much agree on, hijacked by someone with his non-right wing talking points.
                            01000010 01100001 01100001 00100000 01110111 01100101 01100101 01110000 00100000 01100111 01110010 01100001 01101000 01101110 01100001 00100000 01110111 01100101 01100101 01110000 00100000 01101110 01101001 01101110 01101110 01111001 00100000 01100010 01101111 01101110 01100111

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Isn't this a bit of an overreaction?

                              Pete (thinks it's akin to a 50 year old trying to claim a senior citizen discount he hasn't yet "accomplished")

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X